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Thread: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

  1. #21
    Senior Member streaker69's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by whitelisted View Post
    Yeah, but they've got to at least TRY to look like they understand the technologies behind the laws they're writing, and a complete 180 within only a few months really stretches their credibility a little more than I'd have thought most governments were willing to accept.
    Hello, welcome to earth, is today your first day here?

    The legislators have proven themselves time and again to be completely inept at understanding technology and generally only pass kneejerk laws in response to some perceived public outrage.
    A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    I'm not arguing with you - I couldn't agree more. Your statement doesn't apply just to technology but to economics, the sciences, and everything else that comes under the hammer of regulation.


    My point was that although governments and lawmakers usually don't know the first thing about the subject matter they're trying to regulate, what they do know very VERY well is how to manage public perception. For that reason, they don't often deliberately contradict something they've only said a few months ago.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure the forum rules say that we shouldn't be discussing politics because it tends to get people all het up and it's off topic. Many laws that get passed are dumb (I'm looking at *you*, Mr DMCA), but we poor simple folk just have to try to accept it as best we can.

    Let's try to stay with the OP and his question rather than wishing for revolution or whatever.

  3. #23
    My life is this forum Barry's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Hello, welcome to earth, is today your first day here?

    The legislators have proven themselves time and again to be completely inept at understanding anything and generally only pass kneejerk laws in response to some perceived public outrage.
    Fixed that for you.....

  4. #24
    Very good friend of the forum TAPE's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Well in my case the situation was a European one.

    The only information I have been able to dig up is the Council Framework Decision from 2005
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00670071.pdf

    Nicely explained how that affects Germany on this post from The Register
    German hacker-tool law snares...no-one

    Not much more so far..

  5. #25
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    As it is clear now that there is no centralized source of information on the subject ... I'll give my small contribution ...

    [CroPromotion]
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    Croatia - the pentesting Mediterranean as it once was
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Having any hacking tool is just like having a dumbell in your pack. It's not illegal to carry until you hit someone with it.

    Hacking is like a being a doctor, it's not just opening the body to remove a cancerous cell, it's basically removing what will be the cause of someones death.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator lupin's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by phangs View Post
    Having any hacking tool is just like having a dumbell in your pack. It's not illegal to carry until you hit someone with it.
    Just like carrying a knife around isnt illegal unless you stab someone with it? ...Wait a minute...

    Unfortunately, while I wish that your analogy was applicable, and hacking tools were not illegal to possess, they actually are in some jurisdictions (or at least there is enough uncertainty about the matter to indicate that it could be illegal - how the laws in places like Germany are enforced by law enforcement and interpreted by Judges and enshrined in case law will be the deciding factors).

    As streaker indicated, common sense often doesn't apply when it comes to the law.
    Last edited by lupin; 05-10-2010 at 09:43 AM.
    Capitalisation is important. It's the difference between "Helping your brother Jack off a horse" and "Helping your brother jack off a horse".

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  8. #28
    Senior Member streaker69's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by lupin View Post
    As streaker indicated, common sense often doesn't apply when it comes to the law.
    Any law that bans the mere possession of an inanimate object should be looked at with suspicion, since the object itself cannot actually commit a crime. I can think of four things that I carry all the time that are illegal in certain areas of the world, even though they have legal a legal purpose.
    A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by lupin View Post
    Just like carrying a knife around isnt illegal unless you stab someone with it? .
    Well actually I thought using this analogy too but it thought I'd be more subtle instead of a knife

    And I couldn't agree more that common sense is usually forgotten when dealing with the law, and the legislators usually make laws regarding technology without really understanding it deep enough.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator lupin's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Any law that bans the mere possession of an inanimate object should be looked at with suspicion, since the object itself cannot actually commit a crime. I can think of four things that I carry all the time that are illegal in certain areas of the world, even though they have legal a legal purpose.
    There are some inanimate objects Id prefer to remain illegal for the general public to possess (rocket launchers for example), but generally I agree with this, especially when the object has a non infringing purpose - like hacking tools usually do.
    Capitalisation is important. It's the difference between "Helping your brother Jack off a horse" and "Helping your brother jack off a horse".

    The Forum Rules, Forum FAQ and the BackTrack Wiki... learn them, love them, live them.

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