Anyone here a CISSP?

[godcronos]

Don't they go hand in hand? The exams have some tricky questions, so unless you have an in depth knowledge of the material, you will surely fail, especially when some answers are very much similar with small differences.

But , you have a point Lincoln!

[lupin]

- I don't understand how these people passed exams. I am currently studying for an MCSE. I am done with the networking part and am learning the Exchange 2003 server. It's time consuming, since I got a full time job and run a small computer business. Yes, there are a lot of exams, it's pretty crazy. Personally I can't wait to end this cert and go on with something in the security field.
We all have jobs because of Microsoft, no matter if you administer a Windows environment, or do pentesting.
I am pretty sure it's not devalued, at least I hope it's not. I still see ads and some pretty good salaries out these for system engineers( 50k-55k with no experience to 65K with experience, certified, now that's not bad at all). Well, that's what they offer in S. Cali .
I think cheap employers and stupid HR people devalue it.

Its probably not totally devalued, but I know that a lot of people I work with don't really think too much of it, including me. Personally if I was hiring someone for a Windows Admin job, I would confirm they had experience first, and the certification would only be an added bonus.

The biggest problem with the Microsoft tests is the braindumps - they are easily available and have verbatim copies of the exam questions. If you have a good memory you could use them to pass the tests without understanding the material at all. Personally, I passed the exams the hard way, by reading the study guides, doing exercises, and most importantly, having experience in the field.

[mcjon3z]

Whether you consider it unfortunate or not, such credentials can definitely help add credibility, particularly if you are in a consulting role. I can't really comment on whether or not it will necessarily add $$$ to a salary, but credentials may help you sell a job to a client when they are comparing you to another vendor. I have a few (CPA, CISA) and working on my CPTS and I can honestly say that it adds weight when I am competing with others in selling work.

This is not to say that having CISSP or any other letters behind you name makes you any smarter or more qualified than anyone else (many times, quite the contrary), but leverage is leverage, eh?

I have found that CPE requirements are merely part of professional development...actually using the backtrack course to get my 40 hours this year!

[godcronos]

Yup, same way here. Going over course (VTC, CBT Nuggets) and reading Syngress books on the whole course. It's not easy and if you really want to know what you're doing, then it will take time to understand it.

About putting experience first, here is a question: let's say you needed someone to drive a truck full of expensive merchandise from point A to point B and you had 2 options: someone with a driver's license and little experience or someone that said he had experience but no driver's license. Which one would you pick?
I know your initial answer, Lupin, but now after the above example, is that you final answer!

[prowl3r]

About putting experience first, here is a question: let's say you needed someone to drive a truck full of expensive merchandise from point A to point B and you had 2 options: someone with a driver's license and little experience or someone that said he had experience but no driver's license. Which one would you pick?

Yours is not a valid example as a driver license is a legal requirement for that particular task. I personally don't give a damn about certifications. Specially if we are talking about the computer/security thingy, as there has always been an underground factory of talented people on the subject. Only when experience and skills are similar, certs make a difference to me.

Now, I'll give you another example: In the country I live in there was a teen delinquent years ago, who at the age of 12 was the car driver in multiple bank assaults. He barely reached the car controls. However, he was so proficient that it took 5 years for the cops to catch him.

Today, that same man is training the police forces on evasive and advanced driving techniques.

[godcronos]

I guess there will always be 2 sides.
Valid or not, I personally would trust someone that has some school behind him and then experience.
Your example about that 12 year old is a unique case.

[Lincoln]

Yup, same way here. Going over course (VTC, CBT Nuggets) and reading Syngress books on the whole course. It's not easy and if you really want to know what you're doing, then it will take time to understand it.

About putting experience first, here is a question: let's say you needed someone to drive a truck full of expensive merchandise from point A to point B and you had 2 options: someone with a driver's license and little experience or someone that said he had experience but no driver's license. Which one would you pick?
I know your initial answer, Lupin, but now after the above example, is that you final answer!

I get what you're trying to say, but the point we we're making is that anyone can obtain that drivers license, but they might not know how to drive a car!

edit:

I guess there will always be 2 sides.
Valid or not, I personally would trust someone that has some school behind him and then experience.
Your example about that 12 year old is a unique case.

I'll give you a good example then. At my previous company there was someone going for their CCIE. It's the highest level of Cisco certification. Now this person couldn't tell you the difference between a router and a switch (That's extreme but this individual was a real jackass). They had obtained their CCNA, CCNP, and passed the written CCIE. Except when it came down to CCIE lab they failed over 5 times. No matter what, they could not pass the lab. This person managed to get all the way through their certifications memorizing test questions, and when it came down to the hands on part, couldn't pass if their life depended on it. I left the company, but at the time this person was being considered for lead support engineer...(simply based on certs)

[godcronos]

You are right about the driver's license and the driving experience.
And that CCIE guy, that's just shameful!

[SephStorm]

Well, I can promise you this, I would not have the knowledge of IT that I have today if it weren't for me pursuing certifications. Pursuing my A+ increased my knowledge of computer support, studying for MCDST did so even further. and so on in so forth.

[Lincoln]

Well, I can promise you this, I would not have the knowledge of It that I have today if it weren't for me pursuing certifications. Pursuing my A+ increased my knowledge of computer support, studying for MCDST did so even further. and so on in so forth.

I agree if done the right way . Was answering Godcronos about choosing to hire someone with a certificate over experience isn't always the obvious case.