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Thread: ultra long range antennas - howto

  1. #31
    Member imported_onryo's Avatar
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    Default PwnBone 2

    Many thanks onryo. We look forward to your build tutorial.
    After a long night of optimizing the reflector, I have managed to squeeze out 0.27 dBi more out of this design. NEC-4 is showing 733+ gain for ALL wlan ch. 1-14. Remember all values are show in "Free Space". What you would see if you put this thing in outer space. When using the Yagi near earth (cities, over water etc) there are freak lobes appearing that can hit 26 dBi! These are spikes though. This is because the bottom lobes (facing the ground) are reflected away from ground. This in turn compresses the forward lobes into flat "disks" that shoot the lobes forward (more gain). How close does NEC-4 model reality? Extremely. You don't just build an antenna for a Mars Rover only to discover that a RF beam is off by a few degrees. The making is the easy part. I am just waiting for the hardware store to get the 2.4mm aluminum rod. This town is about the size of a hole where a squaw gives birth so shops are slow here

    1) Cut the rods (elements) to the lengths on my site.
    2) Drill holes for the elements at the distances (my site) through a 15-20mm dia. plastic boom. Glue elements.
    3) Place the whole thing into a 10cm dia. PVC tube (like the PwnBone) supported on PVC struts.

    Like I said though. I will have step by step photos when I make it.

    WLAN YAGI for Remote-Exploit



    All the best
    onryo
    Let me explain officer, I am not a hacker. I am a security tester of sorts!

  2. #32
    Member imported_onryo's Avatar
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    Default The brake down

    Sry guys for not getting back to you right away. Have had quite a lot to do!

    Revelati
    WiFi Antennas - 15 dBi Panel Antenna 2.4GHz
    2.4GHz 24dBi Outdoor Grid Dish Antenna
    Revelati your panel Antenna is most likely 2 Biquad antennas that are stacked. With zero loses (not a reality) you get about 11 dBi + 3 dBi = 14 dBi of gain. They are really darn cool, small and effective. Easy to make but there is one detail that cannot be overlooked. Tolerances, i.e. if the coax cable going to the biquad is even off with 0.5mm it can throw off center frequency by 50MHz! Make sure you buy one from a company that does not have a sweat shop in Bangladesh. WiMo makes high quality low price stuff.

    With a Grid antenna (parabolic dish) you can easy get that kind of gain. Often the “feed” is a biquad so the above applies.

    Cain#1
    have you noticed much improvement with any omni's above 2dbi like the one shipped with the alfa?
    Cain#1 I have tested my 9.5 dBi out and it turned out to be 7.2 dBi. HUGE improvement all the same. CAD shows a theoretic gain of 8.91 dBi. Funny thing is that you are not the only one with this problem. I took a look on Google. I wonder if there are knock off fakes of this antenna. Mine really works well!

    Compaq
    Hi Onryo.
    Just a quick question. I'm trying to fiqure out gain, and was wondering if this would be correct.
    Say you had a 50db gain antenna would that be like a laser, and if you had a 1db gain antenna that would allmost be 100% omindierctional.
    Compaq a 50 dBi would look like a laser beam metaphorically speaking. You can’t make more power with an antenna. You just concentrate it into one direction. 50 dBi is a concentration of 100000 times. 1dBi of gain is almost omnidirectional. A true 100% omnidirectional antenna (isotropic = 0 gain = the i in dB) would send just as much RF on XYZ and thus have zero gain. Often people ask me why the reception is also the same as the send dBi increase. That is because the antenna cuts out background noise that is outside of the “beam” at the same dBi. Quiets everything down and can " hear” what is in the beam path.

    Pyros
    How is the site coming on I am looking forward to visiting, and creating a few diferent antennas.
    Pyros the next one will probably be a biquad or helix. Thx

    vvpalin
    If you really want to get fancy draw some crosshairs on your camera lol.
    vvpalin you got some really cool ideas. Should work at DARPA. For now a cheap laser pointer will have to do.

    WLAN YAGI for Remote-Exploit - UPDATED

    All the best
    onryo
    Let me explain officer, I am not a hacker. I am a security tester of sorts!

  3. #33
    Senior Member kidFromBigD's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onryo View Post
    Sry guys for not getting back to you right away. Have had quite a lot to do!
    ...
    All the best
    onryo
    This has been the most interesting thread on the forums for a while.

    I've run the idea of building the pwnbone-antenna past my father-in-law (Boeing, retired) and he wants to help. Between the two of us, we seem to have the tools and materials, less the aluminum.

    If this works for us, we'll post pics and notes from the workbench, and of course the beast attached to BT4 running kismet / airodump-ng.

    Again, many thanks for you contributions onryo!
    You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.
    -Gitsnik

  4. #34
    My life is this forum Barry's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks like I'm going to have to make a Home Depot run now...
    Of course, if you really wanted to have some fun, go to Wal-Mart late at night and ask the greeter if they could help you find trashbags, roll of carpet, rope, quicklime, clorox and a shovel. See if they give you any strange looks. --Streaker69

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Looks like I'm going to have to make a Home Depot run now...
    inorite....please tell me i dont need to learn to spot weld or some shit like that :P

  6. #36
    Member imported_onryo's Avatar
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    Default

    apocolipse269
    inorite....please tell me i dont need to learn to spot weld or some shit like that :P
    apocolipse. Made a point to avoid any sort of welding. In fact a metal boom gives worse gain!

    Barry
    Looks like I'm going to have to make a Home Depot run now...
    Hey Barry if you can find some 2.4mm aluminum rod can you seed me some

    kidFromBidD
    we'll post pics and notes from the workbench
    Can’t wait to see what you come up with. Maybe we can post some Airgraph-ng pics too!


    WLAN YAGI for Remote-Exploit - UPDATED


    Picture of RF from Yagi 3000mm off a "city ground" environment. Freak lobes can hit 26 dBi. In "free space" 20.88 dBi.


    There is a download on my site with PDFs of measurements and other relevant info in case you missed it. Says “To prove I am not a male chauvinist, this file is a rar so women can also open it”

    All the best
    Onryo
    Let me explain officer, I am not a hacker. I am a security tester of sorts!

  7. #37
    Just burned his ISO
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    Default

    Excellent yagi antenna Onryo! You've got a true, no BS design there. Hey, what do you think of going for ultra long range wlan using surplus satellite TV dishes? A short yagi on a 3 foot dish should provide gain similar to a stacked pair of yagis alone.

    Here, there are a lot of cheap dishes and I was thinking of something like this, in a rural environment:

    WI-FI Dish Antenna

    True security is based on open and rigorous probing of our strengths and weaknesses. Yeah, and life is too short for hyperbole, metaphor, and BS.

  8. #38
    Member imported_onryo's Avatar
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    Default

    Excellent yagi antenna Onryo! You've got a true, no BS design there. Hey, what do you think of going for ultra long range wlan using surplus satellite TV dishes? A short yagi on a 3 foot dish should provide gain similar to a stacked pair of yagis alone.

    Here, there are a lot of cheap dishes and I was thinking of something like this, in a rural environment:
    As I said before nothing can outperform a parabolic dish at over 2GHz. At 2.4GHz you can expect gains of:

    23dBi for a 1m dish
    32dBi for a 2m dish
    35dBi for a 4m dish
    44dBi for a 8m dish!

    Sick! Using a helix as a feed is a good idea for wifi since you have no idea what plain that single is going to hit the dish. Often due to reflections it is more than one angle. The kicker is that you need the right focal length for the frequency you are going to use the dish on. A while back I was asked to make a 50cm parabolic dish that could adjust its focal length to any frequency. I got the idea of using a old LP player and putting a round “tray” on it. Then I put a few cm of mercury in the tray. By adjusting the speed that the LP player spun around I could get any focal I needed. The beam went straight up and hit a flat plain that acted as a “RF mirror” to point the beam where ever I wanted. Was quit cool but very impractical.
    One day I need a 72cm dish for 4.3GHz. Was easy to make. I just filled the tray with a slow drying epoxy (non shrinking) and had the LP player spinning at the right speed. When it hardened I just sprayed the dish with a metallic paint. Any way the point is as long as the focal point is right for 2.4GHz you will have the super fly shit of the century. With a big dish you can shoot Scuds down with your Alfa

    WLAN YAGI for Remote-Exploit - UPDATED


    onryo
    Let me explain officer, I am not a hacker. I am a security tester of sorts!

  9. #39
    Senior Member kidFromBigD's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onryo View Post
    As I said before nothing can outperform a parabolic dish at over 2GHz. At 2.4GHz you can expect gains of:

    23dBi for a 1m dish
    32dBi for a 2m dish
    35dBi for a 4m dish
    44dBi for a 8m dish!

    Sick! Using a helix as a feed is a good idea for wifi since you have no idea what plain that single is going to hit the dish. Often due to reflections it is more than one angle. The kicker is that you need the right focal length for the frequency you are going to use the dish on. A while back I was asked to make a 50cm parabolic dish that could adjust its focal length to any frequency. I got the idea of using a old LP player and putting a round “tray” on it. Then I put a few cm of mercury in the tray. By adjusting the speed that the LP player spun around I could get any focal I needed. The beam went straight up and hit a flat plain that acted as a “RF mirror” to point the beam where ever I wanted. Was quit cool but very impractical.
    One day I need a 72cm dish for 4.3GHz. Was easy to make. I just filled the tray with a slow drying epoxy (non shrinking) and had the LP player spinning at the right speed. When it hardened I just sprayed the dish with a metallic paint. Any way the point is as long as the focal point is right for 2.4GHz you will have the super fly shit of the century. With a big dish you can shoot Scuds down with your Alfa

    WLAN YAGI for Remote-Exploit - UPDATED


    onryo
    In addition to being whip-smart, you're also pretty entertaining!

    Mercury on a spinning tray? That's just brilliant. Was that a classified design? Just wait for all the follow-up posts about messing with neurotoxins to achieve better RF gain (j/k).

    Now, when you spin the epoxy, does it create a perfect parabola? That's great technique.

    Alright, so the materials needed for the pwn-bone2 are still elusive, for me at least. I'll keep checking, and hopefully Barry has an update from Home Depot. Since the dimensions have to be precise there's no point in fudging it. Perhaps they can be found at a hobby store or other source. Now, where'd I hide my metric micrometer?
    You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.
    -Gitsnik

  10. #40
    My life is this forum Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidFromBigD View Post
    In addition to being whip-smart, you're also pretty entertaining!

    Mercury on a spinning tray? That's just brilliant. Was that a classified design? Just wait for all the follow-up posts about messing with nerotoxins to achieve better RF gain (j/k).

    Now, when you spin the epoxy, does it create a perfect parabola? That's great technique.

    Alright, so the materials needed for the pwn-bone2 are still elusive, for me at least. I'll keep checking, and hopefully Barry has an update from Home Depot. Since the dimensions have to be precise there's no point in fudging it. Perhaps they can be found at a hobby store or other source. Now, where'd I hide my metric micrometer?
    My wife is driving up to Canada, so I've got the rest of the week without honey-do lists, so I'll hit it up tonight.
    Of course, if you really wanted to have some fun, go to Wal-Mart late at night and ask the greeter if they could help you find trashbags, roll of carpet, rope, quicklime, clorox and a shovel. See if they give you any strange looks. --Streaker69

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