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Thread: Total Newbie

  1. #11
    Moderator KMDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid protocol View Post
    General question. I never really understood what people mean when they say start off with an easier disrtro. I know that linux distros are different in its on way, but what makes such as "ubuntu" so much easier then any other distro? Also you mentioned BackTrack 4 is going to be Debian based so I'm guessing that's what ubuntu is, but what will be some of the differences from BackTrack 3? (If you know).
    BackTrack3 is based on Slax which is a "subversion" of Slackware. Debian comes with an easier to use package manager for instance which will enable the use of repos and automatical checks for updates. Just check the BT4 post out, I think there are better explanations than my few lines.

    Why it is better to start with an easier distro?
    Because if you are new to Linux and have no clue what's basically going on and how stuff is working on it, you will just get distracted by the tools offered by BT. Also a lot of tools require you to understand the internal working and the use of the command line to be usable at all or be effective.
    We gladly answer questions here about some tools but that requires basic knowledge. So if you ask why your network/wireless is not working you will most likely not get an answer besides some stupid remarks

    Also Ubuntu for instance makes it easier to install Linux in the first place. If you have no clue what hda1, hda2 and so on stands for and you just follow a tutorial here you will have pretty high chances to fail since it has the requirement of understanding what is meant by that. Ubuntu comes with an easy install tool so that you have better chances of not messing up your harddisk when you try to install it for the first time.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMDave View Post
    BackTrack3 is based on Slax which is a "subversion" of Slackware. Debian comes with an easier to use package manager for instance which will enable the use of repos and automatical checks for updates. Just check the BT4 post out, I think there are better explanations than my few lines.

    Why it is better to start with an easier distro?
    Because if you are new to Linux and have no clue what's basically going on and how stuff is working on it, you will just get distracted by the tools offered by BT. Also a lot of tools require you to understand the internal working and the use of the command line to be usable at all or be effective.
    We gladly answer questions here about some tools but that requires basic knowledge. So if you ask why your network/wireless is not working you will most likely not get an answer besides some stupid remarks

    Also Ubuntu for instance makes it easier to install Linux in the first place. If you have no clue what hda1, hda2 and so on stands for and you just follow a tutorial here you will have pretty high chances to fail since it has the requirement of understanding what is meant by that. Ubuntu comes with an easy install tool so that you have better chances of not messing up your harddisk when you try to install it for the first time.

    Ok I understand what your saying, but if Ubuntu comes with easy install tools how would you learn the hard way as creating partitions, and file systems. Me my self personally dived right in to backtrack 3 because I wanted to get familiar with commands, and the tools, and plus I never take the easy route. But I will give Ubuntu a try. I just would like to know how would it show me how to use the command line? Also by backtrack 4 being Debian based does that mean installing on the hard drive will be much easier along with package installation?

  3. #13
    Very good friend of the forum Virchanza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid protocol View Post
    I never really understood what people mean when they say start off with an easier disrtro.
    There was a very similar thread lately, here was my input on it:

    http://forums.remote-exploit.org/sho...d.php?p=118283
    Ask questions on the open forums, that way everybody benefits from the solution, and everybody can be corrected when they make mistakes. Don't send me private messages asking questions that should be asked on the open forums, I won't respond. I decline all "Friend Requests".

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid protocol View Post
    Ok I understand what your saying, but if Ubuntu comes with easy install tools how would you learn the hard way as creating partitions, and file systems.
    You might not actually.
    But partitioning and installation of the actual distro is only the beginning and really a small part. Again as was mentioned learning to use the command line itself is really more important. So in a sense it would be ok to use another distro such as BT to learn from. It really all depends on the person. If you are dedicated to learning something then going the "hard route" is ok too.
    If however one is lazy then it may not be the best approach. I would compare it with online classes vs. traditional classes in a classroom.
    There are ups and downs with both, but it is the student that makes the most of it.
    To be successful here you should read all of the following.
    ForumRules
    ForumFAQ
    If you are new to Back|Track
    Back|Track Wiki
    Failure to do so will probably get your threads deleted or worse.

  5. #15
    Moderator KMDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid protocol View Post
    Ok I understand what your saying, but if Ubuntu comes with easy install tools how would you learn the hard way as creating partitions, and file systems. Me my self personally dived right in to backtrack 3 because I wanted to get familiar with commands, and the tools, and plus I never take the easy route. But I will give Ubuntu a try. I just would like to know how would it show me how to use the command line? Also by backtrack 4 being Debian based does that mean installing on the hard drive will be much easier along with package installation?
    If you are a total Linux noob and try to go with BT3 from the start you will just either despair because it is so different from Windows or come here asking all the basic linux questions. With say Ubuntu the easier to use options and GUI's will help you to make the move from Windows to Linux. Make yourself familiar with the different look and feel, make the transition from using all the GUI stuff to the command line and so on.

    Also you won't be tempted to play around with tools you don't understand at all or how they work. It is great if you have at least a rough idea of what's going on and how it works and will make it more convenient. But to jump right into BT3 and all the automated tools will a) leave you hitting a wall once you encounter a problem and b) not understand what is going on besides just seeing a result (or not).

    You could also go ahead and create the LFS to better understand the working of Linux and it's tools.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMDave View Post
    If you are a total Linux noob and try to go with BT3 from the start you will just either despair because it is so different from Windows or come here asking all the basic linux questions. With say Ubuntu the easier to use options and GUI's will help you to make the move from Windows to Linux. Make yourself familiar with the different look and feel, make the transition from using all the GUI stuff to the command line and so on.

    Also you won't be tempted to play around with tools you don't understand at all or how they work. It is great if you have at least a rough idea of what's going on and how it works and will make it more convenient. But to jump right into BT3 and all the automated tools will a) leave you hitting a wall once you encounter a problem and b) not understand what is going on besides just seeing a result (or not).

    You could also go ahead and create the LFS to better understand the working of Linux and it's tools.

    That makes sense, I am not a complete linux noob, but I did start off with backtrack 3 . I do have an idea how some of the tools work, and I've also used them. I feel as long as you have the will to learn, backtrack 3 should not be an obstacle as long as there are tuts, google, and this forum. I have done a lot of reading on linux, slax, and hacking, and it helped a lot. All noobs should do the same if their serious about learning.

  7. #17
    Moderator KMDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid protocol View Post
    That makes sense, I am a linux noob, and I did start off with backtrack 3. I do have an idea how some of the tools work, and I've also used them. I feel as long as you have the will to learn, backtrack 3 should not be an obstacle as long as there are tuts, google, and this forum. I have done a lot of reading on linux, slax, and hacking, and it helped a lot. All noobs should do the same if their serious about learning.
    That is a rare exception and I am glad that there are still people around who are serious about it.
    It is not meant as an offense to anyone at all if I am suggesting to go with an "easier" distribution at first.
    People usually want to get spoonfed and rare exceptions like you seem to be dig their way through, read and ask smart.

    The hints given here usually come from the "experience" dealing with the people usually asking these questions. And again it is not an insult at all but indeed a well known pointer into the right direction.
    Even though BT offers a lot of automation tools they shouldn't be any "autohack" tools. I know they are abused as such but in general they should just make it easier for people who know what's going on.
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  8. #18
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    I have found that learning new tools and distributions from the command line is the best course of action, I would check out ubuntu or debian in vmware first and also check out these links

    linuxquestions.org/
    linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-security-4/security-references-45261/
    tldp.org/
    slackbook.org/
    linux.wikia.com/wiki/Slax


    I would not use pentesting as your primary motivation (even though it may romantic and be your end goal) and start to pursue how distributions, the kernel and software works technically, use pentesting as an end goal and when you are learning and reading think security as the foremost thought, but the aim is to learn technically how things work.....pentesting will come naturally if that is your aim.

    Set up vmware server and load up a few disto's, start by installing and configuring them securely and understand everything you do technically.

    Then fire up BT and test away

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMDave View Post
    That is a rare exception and I am glad that there are still people around who are serious about it.
    It is not meant as an offense to anyone at all if I am suggesting to go with an "easier" distribution at first.
    People usually want to get spoonfed and rare exceptions like you seem to be dig their way through, read and ask smart.

    The hints given here usually come from the "experience" dealing with the people usually asking these questions. And again it is not an insult at all but indeed a well known pointer into the right direction.
    Even though BT offers a lot of automation tools they shouldn't be any "autohack" tools. I know they are abused as such but in general they should just make it easier for people who know what's going on.

    I do agree. No one should take it offensively. I've read through plenty of threads on the forum to tell that some of the new members don't have a clue on not just linux, but BackTrack 3 it self. Post like what is BackTrack? How do you download a program to learn when you don't know what it does?

  10. #20
    Super Moderator Archangel-Amael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMDave View Post
    That is a rare exception and I am glad that there are still people around who are serious about it.
    It is not meant as an offense to anyone at all if I am suggesting to go with an "easier" distribution at first.
    People usually want to get spoonfed and rare exceptions like you seem to be dig their way through, read and ask smart.
    Absolutely correct on that one KMDave, lots of people.
    The bad part of the whole thing is that those who are motivated enough to learn this stuff usually do not ask a whole lot of questions that would seem to others to be trivial, like "how do I get this network card to work?" etc.
    But those who do generally have no real interest in learning but rather only want to look kewl to there friends or whatever.
    The hints given here usually come from the "experience" dealing with the people usually asking these questions. And again it is not an insult at all but indeed a well known pointer into the right direction.
    Again those who have learned those things value the fact that most of the "leg work" as it were was done on their own.
    2 good points KMDave
    To be successful here you should read all of the following.
    ForumRules
    ForumFAQ
    If you are new to Back|Track
    Back|Track Wiki
    Failure to do so will probably get your threads deleted or worse.

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