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Thread: what language is a good starter to learn?

  1. #21
    Just burned his ISO
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    Default for an absolute beginner only!!

    Hi there

    if you are an absolute beginner then PASCAL should be a good one, it is what i started with, and i found learning PHP and C really easy compared to people what hadn't learnt pascal.

    other wise C or Python i have heard is quite a good, although i am only looking into it.


    TechEvo

  2. #22
    Member imported_blackfoot's Avatar
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    Default wow

    I can't believe so many suggested to start with 'C'.

    I suggest a scripting language will give a rewarding learning curve.

    I suggest that you start with perl as it can be applied across a range of interesting problems and has great functionality. For instance perl modules are extensive.

    Python is a superb language too.

    C is clearly outstanding, the fastest and the most extensible but I would not recommend it for a beginner.
    Lux sit

  3. #23
    Member floyd's Avatar
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    It's not a programming language, but maybe you could also start with some HTML...
    Auswaertsspiel

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  5. #25
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    Default english, chinese

    that belongs to you, if you have talent, everything is easy!!!

  6. #26
    Very good friend of the forum Gitsnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    I can't believe so many suggested to start with 'C'.

    I suggest a scripting language will give a rewarding learning curve.

    I suggest that you start with perl as it can be applied across a range of interesting problems and has great functionality. For instance perl modules are extensive.

    Python is a superb language too.

    C is clearly outstanding, the fastest and the most extensible but I would not recommend it for a beginner.
    I'm going to counter this argument and plug for C as well. There is one very special reason for this:

    It's not quite as bad as assembler.

    C, or a C derivative such as ++ or #, is what most if not all operating systems are written in. Before there was C, we built OS' in assembly language, but I'm not suggesting you learn that (yet).

    Learning C as a basis teaches you a lot that you simply can't pick up elsewhere. Bash or Perl have relativly decent automatic memory maintenance (for example), so does Java in its auto-garbage collection. When you code in C you have to think about every aspect of your program and try to do it correctly (and securely). This seems like a bucket load of effort and, to be honest, it is, but you learn so much about the operating system you are working on, as well as providing an insight into how a lot of other programs work - something you can't pick up as well if you only know interpreted languages. C does exactly what it is told - there is no re-typing a variable because you decide to use a string as an int, we just don't do things that way.

    To be fair, except for exploit code and some enhancements to older perl code, I don't write much C anymore, it's probably been 4 years since I wrote anything longer than ten thousand lines in the language, yet I still suggest learning it first.

    Besides, it's called code because it's not meant to be easily readable
    Still not underestimating the power...

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  7. #27
    Very good friend of the forum Virchanza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitsnik View Post
    C, or a C derivative such as ++ or #, is what most if not all operating systems are written in.
    Don't lump C# into the same category as C and C++.

    C and C++ are portable, efficient, powerful languages that have countless 3rd party libraries available.

    C# is Microsoft piece of crap for making .NET applications, and it's about as portable as a caravan with no wheels.

    When you code in C you have to think about every aspect of your program and try to do it correctly (and securely). This seems like a bucket load of effort and, to be honest, it is, but you learn so much about the operating system you are working on, as well as providing an insight into how a lot of other programs work - something you can't pick up as well if you only know interpreted languages.
    I've wondered more than once whether it's better to learn C first or C++ first.

    With C++, you can use the Standard Library to all sorts of stuff for you so that you never have to go playing around with pointers or arrays. However of course, C++ is a superset of C, so there's no reason at all why you can't write a C-style program in C++.

    If you were to learn the highlevel C++ stuff first, e.g. std::string, then you'd be able to write some really nice programs within a week. If you start off learning lower-level stuff, like using arrays of char's to represent strings, then it will be a bit more difficult to get stuff going.

    I myself started out with C++ by reading C++ for Dummies, and I was playing around with arrays of char's before I played around with std::string. I think C++ for Dummies gives a nice balance between "getting dirty" and "getting things done easily and quickly".

    The only reason I ever got involved with C was that I was programming microcontroller chips in college, and there was no C++ compiler available for the chips (which is pretty damn common in the microcontroller world).

    If I could only know one language, it would definitely be C++, but it also helps to be familiar with C. Besides, if you know C++ properly, then all you have to do is read up on a few functions if you want to understand what a piece of C code is doing.
    Ask questions on the open forums, that way everybody benefits from the solution, and everybody can be corrected when they make mistakes. Don't send me private messages asking questions that should be asked on the open forums, I won't respond. I decline all "Friend Requests".

  8. #28
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    shitttt!!!!!!!!
    Where the **** do this people live??What the **** do they do all day long??

  9. #29
    Very good friend of the forum Gitsnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virchanza View Post
    Don't lump C# into the same category as C and C++.

    C and C++ are portable, efficient, powerful languages that have countless 3rd party libraries available.

    C# is Microsoft piece of crap for making .NET applications, and it's about as portable as a caravan with no wheels.
    I hate the entire .NET suite as much as any blue blooded C guy can, but they are still derivatives. A lot of really good windows cracking apps are written in C#, almost every game I'm aware of the source code for is written in C++, and they're both derivatives of C.

    I agree with you about C++ being easier to develop programs in, and this is why I take issue with learning it (or any of the others) first - your first program should be simple. Spend some time watching a so-called self (or book) -taught PHP developer write code and you begin to realise that most people whom think they can program can't. (Note: PHP was just the first language that popped into my head, I mean anything that is relatively simple to use no matter how powerful it can be). Knowledge should be earned.

    Libraries are great, don't get me wrong, but I view them the same way I view a GUI IDE - you are permitted to use them after you've gotten the simple stuff out of the way (you can use the standard ones - I'm talking manually coding up C-based socket programs or writing your own libraries for a while). This enforces a somewhat decent coding practice at the very beginning, which is exactly where it needs to be.

    Later on you can get sloppy (see some of the code I've already posted here!) and write things as fast and dirty as you like. (IMHO).

    All that said:

    If you start with a book like C++ for Dummies, and you start messing with things you should be messing with (like arrays) before making use of the libraries, then the entirety of my above post is relatively moot and can be ignored.
    Still not underestimating the power...

    There is no such thing as bad information - There is truth in the data, so you sift it all, even the crap stuff.

  10. #30
    Very good friend of the forum Virchanza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitsnik View Post
    I hate the entire .NET suite as much as any blue blooded C guy can, but they are still derivatives.
    There's countless derivatives of C, and they're all shite, except for C++.

    Why anyone would spend more than 7 minutes learning C# is beyond me. Same goes for Java.
    Ask questions on the open forums, that way everybody benefits from the solution, and everybody can be corrected when they make mistakes. Don't send me private messages asking questions that should be asked on the open forums, I won't respond. I decline all "Friend Requests".

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