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Thread: London Tube{and bus} Smartcard Cracked

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    I don't know much about this system, but are these cards actually in the name of the person that purchased them?
    I can not speak for the cards used on the London tube, but the cards used over here are in the name of the actual user and are intended solely for personal use. This does not mean that you are not allowed to pay the bus fare for a friend, but you are not authorised to actually lend the card itself to anyone else.

    But it isn't like someone is sitting there daily looking through the logs and saying "Hey, Tron gets on a the Lisbourne station every day between 7:38 and 7:45 and gets off at the Tisdale station every day around 8:31 and 8:42".

    IMO, record keeping is ok, as long as it's used for the right porpoises, and IMO, no matter what the left wing media says, records of such events are not being abused. Now lets becareful here as to not spawn off into politics.
    You are right, I don't think that my daily routines are interesting enough for anyone to actually monitor them and neither do I believe that the information is actually misused. However, though I have nothing to hide, I have a general dislike of my activities being logged unless this is absolutely necessary for the system to function correctly.
    -Monkeys are like nature's humans.

  2. #12
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    I'm to tied to post a full reply {so will prop edit this later}

    MI5 seeks powers to trawl records in new terror hunt

    Surveillance by Oyster Card

    And unless you are a visitor or a smart criminal {or a smart terrorist} 95% of people have cards register to their name, because they get cheaper fairs and can top-up via phone or online and don't have to queue for ages at the station.

    Plus on the "Most People were happy" in Orwell's word wasn't not the same in Equilibrium when ever ones was drugged to inhibit their emotions.

  3. #13
    Senior Member streaker69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Tron= View Post
    I can not speak for the cards used on the London tube, but the cards used over here are in the name of the actual user and are intended solely for personal use. This does not mean that you are not allowed to pay the bus fare for a friend, but you are not authorised to actually lend the card itself to anyone else.
    So, if I were go pop over there for a visit, even for just one day, I couldn't just get a ticket in cash to ride? I'd have to get one of those cards? Seems like an awful lot of overhead to maintain

    You are right, I don't think that my daily routines are interesting enough for anyone to actually monitor them and neither do I believe that the information is actually misused. However, though I have nothing to hide, I have a general dislike of my activities being logged unless this is absolutely necessary for the system to function correctly.
    Many of the monitoring issues could be resolved if it was clearly stated when the data is going to be purged and there was a guarantee that it was purged in a timely manner.

    The only information that I know that is regularly abused here in the states is gun purchase records, they are supposed to be destroyed after 15 days, but I know that PA state police got caught keeping a database for many years of all gun purchases in the state. They were supposed to delete it, but how can anyone be sure they did? After all, they were illegally keeping a 'gun registry' for years, how can one possibly trust them to delete the data?
    A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    So, if I were go pop over there for a visit, even for just one day, I couldn't just get a ticket in cash to ride? I'd have to get one of those cards? Seems like an awful lot of overhead to maintain
    It is still possible to buy single tickets using cash from the bus/tram driver or using a special vending machine. In case you want to buy several tickets prior to the trip and take advantage of the lower prices when buying in bulk, you are however forced to get a personal card.

    For regular commuters the cheapest and most convenient way to pay your trips is still by paying a monthly fee which includes an unlimited amount of trips for the whole month. We do not have any security gates in our subway stations, nor were you before the new cards were introduced obliged to show your valid ticket in either the trams or the subways unless a ticket inspector showed up demanding to see it. Nowadays you are however required to show your card each time you use public transportation, and as nothing else has changed the only likely reason for this is that they want to be able to track you as closely as possible.
    -Monkeys are like nature's humans.

  5. #15
    Senior Member streaker69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Tron= View Post
    We do not have any security gates in our subway stations, nor were you before the new cards were introduced obliged to show your valid ticket in either the trams or the subways unless a ticket inspector showed up demanding to see it. Nowadays you are however required to show your card each time you use public transportation, and as nothing else has changed the only likely reason for this is that they want to be able to track you as closely as possible.
    I think you're jumping to a big conclusion for the ultimate purpose. It would seem to me, that they want to ensure that the rides that people are taking are actually paid for. I'm assuming that you use public transportation alot over there. How many times have you actually been asked to show your ticket? (just curious)

    I'm sure they saw an issue with people riding for free, and felt that this might be a method to ensure people are paying for their rides instead of installing turnstyles like in the US.
    A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    I think you're jumping to a big conclusion for the ultimate purpose. It would seem to me, that they want to ensure that the rides that people are taking are actually paid for. I'm assuming that you use public transportation alot over there. How many times have you actually been asked to show your ticket? (just curious)

    I'm sure they saw an issue with people riding for free, and felt that this might be a method to ensure people are paying for their rides instead of installing turnstyles like in the US.
    As I said there are no turn-gates, nor any guards, actually preventing you from simply ignoring the machines you are supposed to hold up the cards for, regardless of whether you have a valid ticket or not. The only thing actually enforcing the rule would be your own conscience, and for the people not paying for their rides this voice is probably not that hard to ignore.

    Especially on the subway the ticket inspectors are a rather common sight. I personally use public transportation at least twice a day every weekday and on an average I am asked to show my ticket about twice a week. Seeing as the fine, compared to the ticket price, is rather significant (ticket price ~2€, fine ~80€) this is the one thing actually making sure that people pay for their rides.

    You will however not be fined for neglecting to show the ticket when you get on the ride, as long as you can produce a valid ticket once the ticket inspectors show up. Due to this it is rather common that people disregard the rule, especially during rush hours, and simply walk past the machines. Further contributing to this behaviour is the fact that the widespread debate about this tracking system have lead to most people sharing the view mirrored by my posts.

    I admit that I am pushing the topic to its extreme point and I do not actually feel that this is such a serious intrusion of my privacy. I do, nevertheless, seriously believe that the main reason behind wanting people to register their card on every ride is to be able to, when needed, track their movements and not to make sure that they pay for their trips, as it in no way makes it harder to ride for free.
    -Monkeys are like nature's humans.

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