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Thread: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

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    Very good friend of the forum TAPE's Avatar
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    Default International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    I went on a trip a while ago and when packing up my netbook, suddenly started wondering about
    whether certain countries may have stricter rules on the possession of 'hacking tools'.

    Basically my concern was that when crossing the country's border and arriving in the next, what was installed on the netbook may be considered to be either illegal, unwanted, or merrit an undesired elaborate search should it become clear such tools were installed.

    Obviously in case of doubt the simple solution is to not have it on you, full stop, however did not really want to bugger up my dual install..

    Have tried various searches on the matter and although have found some articles on mainly Germany with some articles on UK plans, have not found a detailed list on the points of view on a country by country basis.

    Perhaps my google-fu is weak today, but would anyway appreciate any comments on the matter.

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    Very good friend of the forum killadaninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    It is very rare, also hard for the law I imagine, to make software illegal. It is not the tools that do the hacking, it is also important to remember that "hacking" is not necessarily illegal, and thus, I imagine, makes your concerns unjust worthy.
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    Super Moderator Archangel-Amael's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by killadaninja View Post
    It is very rare, also hard for the law I imagine, to make software illegal. It is not the tools that do the hacking, it is also important to remember that "hacking" is not necessarily illegal, and thus, I imagine, makes your concerns unjust worthy.
    Wow that's totally unfounded.

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    Very good friend of the forum killadaninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel-Amael View Post
    Wow that's totally unfounded.
    Why do you think that Archangel? It`s hardly unfounded, take for example peer 2 peer sharing and the software that goes with it. Limewire, or any bittorrent. It is very hard to get software banned because there will always be an argument for usability and legality IMHO.
    Old trojans SUB7 etc, just named remote admin tools, they was clearly hacking tools and was not banned so I do not see how my comment was unfounded, friend.
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    Senior Member shamanvirtuel's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by killadaninja View Post
    It is very rare, also hard for the law I imagine, to make software illegal. It is not the tools that do the hacking, it is also important to remember that "hacking" is not necessarily illegal, and thus, I imagine, makes your concerns unjust worthy.
    that's totally wrong, in some countries, ie germany, having nmap installed is illegal , the law is formulated in a way, that it can make any pentesting tool(nmpa, metasploit etc....)illegal to possess because you can use it to hack something.... silly but it's reality

    That means Backtrack is illegal in germany, as well any linux distro with a simple port scanner installed.
    Watch your back, your packetz will belong to me soon... xD

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    Very good friend of the forum killadaninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Shaman thats not exactly true, I am from UK and we did have some harsh laws placed in 2008, but they do not make possessing NMAP illegal.

    In 2007 and 2008, broad new cybercrime laws took effect in Germany and England. These laws are meant to ban the distribution, use, and even possession of “hacking tools”. For example, the UK amendment to the Computer Misuse Act makes it illegal to “supply or offer to supply, believing that it is likely to be used to commit, or to assist in the commission of [a Computer Misuse Act violation]”.

    BELIEVING THAT IS LIKELY TO BE USED TO COMMIT A COMPUTER VIOLATION, now that part is important because it perfectly accompanies what I am saying, there will always be arguments on the legality and usability.

    You might call it a hacking tool, I call it an anti hacking tool, you might say I was going to commit a cyber crime, I might say I was going to prevent one, like I say, IMHO, I think we are pretty safe.
    Last edited by killadaninja; 05-03-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Waw, living next to Germany (Belgium in fact), i know about the anti hacking law that was published in 2007 but it is so stupid (i mean nearly every piece of code can be tagged as hacking code by that law), that i have never seen anybody been prosecuted with that law.

    Clearer info about the situation in Germany can be seen here:
    http://www.darkreading.com/security/...leID=208804698

    Does anyone knows other countries where such stupid laws have been published (and maybe implemented)?

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    Very good friend of the forum Gitsnik's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Right, so leaving the tools debate alone for a second, because obviously there are both sides of the party there and I would prefer to see someone actually cite a real-life law rather than hearsay///

    Can someone verify the encryption software rules in... france? It's been a while since I spoke with anyone about travelling there, but IIRC having software like Truecrypt, or using ciphers beyond a certain strength, was illegal. I could be left fielding, but it's been on my mind since I first saw this thread.
    Still not underestimating the power...

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    Super Moderator Archangel-Amael's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    Quote Originally Posted by killadaninja View Post
    Why do you think that Archangel? It`s hardly unfounded, take for example peer 2 peer sharing and the software that goes with it. Limewire, or any bittorrent. It is very hard to get software banned because there will always be an argument for usability and legality IMHO.
    Old trojans SUB7 etc, just named remote admin tools, they was clearly hacking tools and was not banned so I do not see how my comment was unfounded, friend.
    The reason I stated that your statement was/is unfounded is because it is merely your speculation on the subject and nothing more.
    First and foremost is should be noted, (and correct me if I am wrong) we are not lawyers. As such our interpretations are just that.
    Second while you state information about the UK this may not apply as per the OP's intention in the first post of "certain countries" which as it is, was not specified.
    So your statement is basically to say that the OP has nothing to worry about (as far as you are concerned) with any type of "we don't like hackers and their tools" laws which may or may not exist in any country. That my friend is unfounded since you have no real first hand proof that this is true. While this may not have been your intention it does appear that way.
    A better way for you to have opened the discussion in your post would have been to state something to the effect that "in my country" or "in XXX country" here is what I know or here is the law. References are always appreciated.
    As such here is just one such in regards to the German law that many misquote or misunderstand
    Germany's New Computer Crime Law is Bad, but not that Bad (Hendrik Weimer's Quantenblog)
    However the main point is that while most tools in and of themselves are legal to posses, it is the general intent of use that questions their legality.
    Further one must also look at how these laws will be interpreted in each case. If one judge deems the law to state no one shall have these tools and all who do are guilty and must be punished and you are on the firing line then "unjust worthy" will be not really get you far. The main point about this new law is that as of yet there really hasn't been any major cases (if any at all) on this matter.
    Here is another article on the subject of the German law with a slant in the direction of "guilty, go to jail".
    Interview: Germany and new cybercrime law
    Also a good source of info.
    The University of Saarland, Germany
    Last edited by Archangel-Amael; 05-03-2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Very good friend of the forum killadaninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: International rules on possession of what are deemed to be 'hacking tools'

    This may help.

    Sorry Archangel and OP, Archangel I now understand the point you are making, I did not mean the OP was safe to travel where he wanted carefree, one should always check laws of the country you are entering, be it foods materials etc. I was just expressing my opinion (anger?), and forgot to clearly state it was an opinion.
    Last edited by killadaninja; 05-10-2010 at 01:24 PM.
    Sometimes I try to fit a 16-character string into an 8–byte space, on purpose.

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